When was the last time you dedicated time to be creative? One of the traps that many find themselves in is being to busy to innovate. It's likely that if you work in marketing or started a business that you identify as a creative person. But creativity has to be more than an idea, it's an action. It's something you do and practice and in this episode we explore why it pays to dedicate much more time tapping into the many lands of smart. 

Glenn Capelli is a member of MENSA, a true bright spark, who has been helping children, teachers, employees and CEO's to innovate and create for more than 30 years. Glenn shares some wonderful insights and timely reminders of why we need to pay more attention to being creative and the benefits it brings. 

00:00:00:05 - 00:01:18:13
Paul: Hey let me ask you a question. Do you think of yourself as a creative person. I think that most business owners entrepreneurs marketers are by nature pretty creative people. Now they may not be singers or painters or sculptors but by nature they have a creative bent. That's often the thing that drew them into business. But often our creativity is being curved or where nervous we shy away from really letting our creativity shine. And certainly that's true through business marketing that we lose our way or our confidence to really let that out. So I've I've asked one of the smartest guys in our Glen Cappelli a man who's spent 30 years working with companies helping them to become more creative to innovate their ideas their thinking and the way that they do business. To join us today to have a conversation about creativity how can we become more creative. How can we really tap into our creative juices trust ourselves to create something new into the marketplace. And I really believe that creativity is a key to driving our success helping us to stand out from the crowd. So is gonna be a fun conversation one that I really enjoyed having I'm sure you're going to enjoy too. So let's get to it. But first here's the intro.

00:01:29:22 - 00:01:37:23
Warick: Welcome to the Marketers Club Podcast. The show all about helping you work smarter earn more and accelerate your success.

00:01:48:18 - 00:03:34:05
Paul: So welcome to Episode 22 of the marketers club podcast I am your host Paul McCarthy and I'm here to help you market your talent so you can earn what you're worth and ultimately make more of a difference in the world. Welcome again. Great to have you company. If you're joining me for the first time Welcome to the program. Great to have you on board and if you're returning and a regular listener. Always great to have you. Really appreciate you being a listener of the program. It's something I love producing and I hope that you are enjoying all the episodes that we bring to you. And this week is one that's really close to my heart as an all musician I'm writing the creativity. I love being as creative as I can be. It's the thing that I think drew me into business into marketing and I love helping people to come up with creative ideas ways to help them solve their challenges and problems. But I've enrolled the help of one of the smartest guys I know Glenn Cappelli Glenn is a multi award winning speaker. I've been a great admirer of Glenn's for many years. He's perhaps the most awarded speaker in in Australia. His mind is razor sharp. He's a member of Mensa renewed on a mentor it's really where we do an IQ test you get a score in the 98 percentile to become a member of Mensa so he's a sharp mind but a great guy who really focuses on helping people to tap into their creativity. So our conversation today is really about how to tap and unlock your creativity how to help you really start to get your creative juices going and I think unfortunately a lot of our education system shuts this down and then it's only reinforced when we get to the workplace where people are afraid to make mistakes and aren't encouraged to really pursue their creativity.

00:03:34:07 - 00:04:27:28
Paul: Ken Robinson is a brilliant speaker an Englishman Sir Ken Robinson and he tells a great story of a little girl who's in the classroom and she's a preschooler and she's drawing away and the teacher comes over and she says to the little girl what do you what are you drawing there. She says. I'm drawing a picture of God and the teacher says oh darling nobody knows what God looks like. And she says I will in a minute and that's I think that great sort of feeling of creativity is that kids have they just are willing to try things and not afraid to make mistakes and I think as business owners as entrepreneurs as marketers we need to be willing to make mistakes we've got to get creative we've got to start to push boundaries and that's what today's conversation is all about. So I don't want to keep you waiting any longer. Let's dive into my chat with Glenn Cappelli. So Glenn Cappelli welcome to the markets club podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. Great to have you on the show.

00:04:28:00 - 00:04:32:12
Glen: A pleasure man. Good. Good to see your smiling face and a good voice.

00:04:32:14 - 00:05:28:11
Paul: Good on you back. Well I have watched you with great admiration for many years or a colleague in the speaking world and I've enjoyed watching and learning from you for many years. I was very keen to have a conversation with you about the whole idea of innovation creativity how important it is to us as entrepreneurs as marketers getting out there really being able to develop our creative sides. I think I remember watching Sir Ken Robinson and him talking about the fact that creativity is you know it doesn't matter which curriculum you look at in which country it's always at the bottom of the list. And I think that for a lot of entrepreneurs and people in marketing we need to really tap into our creativity someone had a chat to you because this is the field that you've worked in for so long and helped so many people generate so many great results so let's chat a little bit about this whole space of creativity and innovation. What gets in the way of it and how we can tap into it a bit more.

00:06:18:12 - 00:07:09:02
Glen: Creativity, innovation, two of my favourite words. And I guess a the thing for me is there is a many ways of learning and in the many lands of smart. So the more there is so many different fields to play in and think in as human beings and yet we often go playing and thinking in only one or two fields. The great Einstein said that, thinking for me is combinatory play you know, its how you combine both things. And you would know as a musician as even when you were witting the music, writing the lyrics, its the combo of factors, so rhythm, tempo, bass, chorus, that hook that comes in as, its thinking in combination. But so often were, were taught to only think in one way. You know Paul every time I present I ask people you know how many people in this room have ever passed an exam without fully understanding the subject matter. You know we become good at passing exams or we learn to pass an exam or what's the curriculum and creativity and innovation is going beyond the exam it's game beyond the it's a it's combining a whole variety of factors and unearthing a lot more of the talent and potential inside of us that most of us sadly don't get to to unearth and play with. And even that we'd play you know in some cultures play is looked on as a very negative thing but playfulness is at the base of human beings. We're born curious.

00:07:09:04 - 00:07:50:24
Paul: I've watched you from the stage many times going and when you work with companies and in a deeper level. What's the process. I guess the transition because obviously you may come onto a stage where you're dealing with a very stiff audience and this is not obviously limited to speakers and doing it from a stage but just in your space where you're often on a stage you walk in front of an audience and they're uptight. Their arms crossed those sort of things. So you're going to engage them in prices so what happens to people in terms of their ability to open up to learn. How does that get improved by through the playfulness through the creativity. How do you go through a process of getting people to start to tap into that.

00:07:50:26 - 00:10:15:22
Glen: First of all you've got to have your own philosophy and really believe in that philosophy and my philosophy of life is that one people learn more when they get to talk rather than just listen. But it doesn't mean that people are naturally particularly if they come along thinking they're going to be hearing the speech or hearing the presenter then suddenly to be talking to the people next to them or around them. So you frame it in such a way that it makes sense to have conversations even by saying that people learn more when they get to talk rather than just listen because one of the essences of what I'm about his group genius you know individually you may be highly intelligent. We may not but individually we maybe have a high IQ. But then we don't relate well with other human beings. So it becomes extremely limited this high IQ. So it's the way that we can collaborate with those around us. The group genius creating environments that great genius recognising that every human being has their story every human being has their way and every human being's has different ways of seeing things different ways of learning if you like different many lands are smart so to connect with other human beings around this is important so when we learn more we get to talk rather than just listen and secondly laughter when it laughter in a room it dissolves barriers. Likewise music can dissolve barriers so there's a whole variety of ways of getting the brain to open up and then allowing the rest of the brain to be engaged in learning so things like music things like movement things like chatting things like laughing things like getting to think a little bit helped to open us up and then I believe we can soak in far more learning and that's also why a playful environment an environment in a workplace where people are talking chatting able to work together. When you have a meeting that's not just here's the information boom boom boom but we're here together to be able to converse. So the combinatory play can be the talking in is talking in threes talking fours then coming together as a whole group listening to other ideas I'm noticing that quiet person in the background but they might be quiet but boy there might be a whole depth of thought inside of them that needs to be on that when they vocalise it's barely worth listening to what they got to say.

00:10:16:00 - 00:11:25:23
Paul: Let's talk about some I guess some of the practical wise then in terms of for a business how we convert these ideas there's obviously you know if we're in a conference environment we're chatting on a stage and we're an expert in inspiring people in those moments but then we go back to our workplaces we've got to run a business maybe I've got a small team of people and I want to not just get them to be complying compliant to the things we need done but I want them to to bring out their creativity I want to encourage and draw out the best of the people I've got in my team. So how practically can I start to tap into the smarts of the people how can I encourage women in music space you know if you talk to somebody and say you know can you sing. Most people will say no I can't. Even though everyone can sing but because they are measuring themselves against perhaps a singer and so they go I can't sing like that so I don't see myself being able to sing that in a business how do we get the best out of our people how do we create space for them to be creative while we still got to make a profit we still go to grow a business. But how do I get the my people and allow them to shine a little bit as well.

00:11:25:25 - 00:12:45:21
Glen: We can go back to the 1950s even though wonderful Alex Osborne. Now Osborne invented the word brainstorming and I often say or I'll put brainstorming up on a slide and then you watch the Mexican wave of eyebrows. It's like oh gollie this again how many times do we have to do this. But what people think brainstorming is is he has some butcher's paper. He has some coloured pens come out with a bucket load of ideas. But Osborne ironically was very strict in his rules of brainstorming and one of them that I think we've really got to keep in mind is when you want ideas give people solo time first So listen we've gathered together for this meeting here because we we've got some challenges around how we're promoting one of our products. So before I actually asked you to talk with each other I just want every person to spend three or four minutes alone with a piece of paper or with your iPad and really think it through. We're gonna do this in silence. Think it through. Jump down any ideas any points any more when it comes to mind as silly as it might be as small as it might be as huge as it might be of some of your thinking around this product and the way we're going about distributing it and you give people solo time and then. Okay. Now let's pair up here pay a pair pay a pair fantastic three minutes to chat at three and pay as I can.

00:12:45:23 - 00:13:57:26
Glen: Now we're gonna go get a group of fours and you know what is your pair have to say, now listen to the other pair. Now let's look at the best of the ideas here from the room. So it takes a little bit more time but it's far more engaging people are involved. People have solved time and then a variety of ways to contribute to each other before it gets to the hall room experience. They are how we reach and how we teach. And sadly I think a lot of organisations are not skilled in reaching and teaching. And some teachers who are credible teachers but they don't value their ability to be able to reach and teach in a whole variety of ways. The methodology of reaching and teaching is so natural to them that they don't understand what they even do so little things like this that Alex Osborne talks about stop solo then go to peers go to groups sometimes you know one of my favourite sentences. I think I might have invented this one myself but probably many of others have said it is that constraint breeds creativity. In three minutes four minutes in the year I was born full 1957 goes back a long time ago now but time is the law of economics.

00:14:13:07 - 00:14:44:01
Paul: You use creativity and innovation as a conversation that you're educating people about this all the time. What did some of the processes. I guess to draw this for you in person who's written multiple books and done TV series. You've written lots of songs so in the production of producing songs running a speaking business. Talk to me a little bit about how these things have come together how they become part of your mix to educate others about the value of creativity and innovation.

00:14:44:04 - 00:17:16:23
Glen: For me that you know I just go back through my own life and see the things that have kept me going and it wasn't just an analytical brain. It wasn't just a high IQ. I'm mean I'm a member Mensa so I can actually talk about this with some confidence I was asked on radio What made so stands for. And I said I believe it stands for my ego needs some attention but Mensa is a Latin word meaning table and originally intelligence was looked at as as the table. How do you share David Perkins said how round is your table How good is your sharing that's intelligence. But then we took the word mainstream we made it the. That's it's how high you scored an IQ test now IQ is valuable but it's extremely limited. So we've got to go again David Perkins, beyond IQ. We need to go beyond IQ and when we go beyond IQ we look at something that makes absolute sense to me. Now this is something I teach to year sevens at Brisbane Girls Grammar every year or something I teach in in Samoa in primary schools and I teach it to CEOs and we'll be taking it to our calling see professional speakers Association. There's a model that makes sense to me when I first was came across it and I came across it way back nineteen eighty nine I think. But the the model say that there are in my language many lands a smart or in Professor Howard Gardner's language multiple intelligences. There's a fine framework of knowledge. So he said that there are a variety of independent and interdependent intelligences inside every human being. Now he originally came up with seven that great to white and he said this possibly hundreds. But he believes these seven All right more quantifiable and one of them you'll be placed now is music musical intelligence. How we respond to life in music it's not just singing or playing an instrument it's it's how we think in rhythm and in tempo and when we're speaking do we have some up and down and fast and slow rhythm to our voice. The rap and rhyme and rhythm and song as we move along. The second was the physical intelligence the intelligence of the carpenter the the mental worker the mechanic the hands on intelligence using our body. Now it's also the intelligence you're using your body to communicate.

00:17:16:25 - 00:18:24:09
Glen: You know one of my favourite languages on the planet. It is auslan or sign language. So using your physicality to communicate by signing teacher Carol to the virus and you cannot be shy in sign language people everywhere. You've got to exhibit you can be theatrical with it so that physical intelligence then the third thing. So we've got music we've got physical. Then he talks about the interpersonal you know the ability to go inside yourself. The ability to reflect the ability to understand your own patents in this manner may be one of the biggest of the mall and contemplation of our stuff knowing our own strengths and weaknesses and how we can grow and flow. Then the interpersonal the ability to relate with fellow human beings the empathy factor which may be sadly lacking in some leadership that I see fit and the ability to you know state Dale Carnegie out of the 1920s to be interesting be interested be interested in other human beings you know that taxi driver has got a story probably got five languages as well.

00:18:24:17 - 00:20:06:10
Glen: You know the different people that we meet to really be curious about them. I think that what we've linked to that is language intelligence how we use language how we use words whether it's in reading or writing whether it's in poetry whether it's in haiku whether we any matter because at the same time people open where we can speak some Hebrew or a el palo Poco Italiano. You know the variety of languages that we have and it always fascinates me in organisations they don't even know how many languages they've got spoken in their organisations. And you know there's some people. English is their fourth way not only a speaking but their fourth way of thinking. So the language intelligence then we get to the the logic mathematical the analytical the ability to organise the ability to get through things in in an academic way. And the visual spatial intelligence so how things look how things feel the colour the symbolism the metaphor of it all. Now if you're marketing a product you can look at it and advertise and they would go okay what's the jingle. You know what's that little jingle we're going to write. What's what's the actual look of the product what's the physicality of it what's the body what's the story we can get to so people can understand why they need this product the interpersonal and interpersonal maybe what's that. But so why people combine around this product Oh do we use a combination of thoughts and ideas to be able to market the product. What's the language we use. You know that we spend a lot of time on putting.

00:20:06:21 - 00:21:58:11
Glen: And I think it was it might have been Oscar Wilde that said you know took his whole day to put in a comma in a poem and then the whole next day to remove it again. So I did that in advertising you know when they really work on the script the language smarts of it all that the logical mathematical does it make sense does it. How can it make sense. But at the same time I'll get back to that one too because sometimes that can limit us we want to bring that in later not earlier. We've got to be playful first and then go Okay what's the make sense of. But then the visual element. What's it look like. What are the colours we use. So anyone in marketing thinks they throw anything on a branding but we should be thinking this through in everything we do. What's the design of the rooms we have in our offices what's in my life. How do I nourish all of these lands for the youngsters you know do we nourish these lands and we see some families now it's like no now only spend time on the things that are going to be examined then are examined able and at a high school full in on all the testing names. So I was mortified quite a few years ago now presenting to principals in New South Wales and in the break. We'd go out and all the exhibitors would be exhibiting just about every exhibit I was. There was a dance school. There was a physical education school. There was music and what they were doing is they were selling themselves to schools for after school classes because there was no music or art or dance or physical education being done at school. They stop being subjects and they now become things that you just might do after school. That's a great disservice to human beings and our kids.

00:21:58:13 - 00:22:21:21
Paul: Absolutely. And this is I guess is where I start with the. Ken Robinson in talking about that if that hierarchy of education and these things not being valued and at the very best being at the bottom of the list and almost the afterthought is you're saying that being almost dropped from curriculums altogether so that creative spark and juice and people just being confined to a box.

00:22:22:02 - 00:24:01:10
Glen: Yeah. I mean the best of our teachers use these many lands anyway. But when you use music and insight and language to teach physics you know do a whole variety at the best of our teachers but we wrote many years ago Paul we we did a program throughout Asia called the innovation revolution. Part of it was because we were invited into Singapore to look at Singapore realised that they they got really smart people who got really good academic people really smart in certain ways. And if they could add creativity and innovation into what they do rather than just copying what somebody else was doing and repeating it. So they asked me in to look at how they were teaching creativity and this is this sticks in my mind. I watched a lesson where they on a whiteboard they put the 10 Rules of creativity and then the students in the room had to memorise the 10 Rules of creativity and then they did the test on the 10 rules of creativity. And if they could recite those 10 rules if they got 100 percent and it was like (screaming noise) yet I see that happening more and more and not just in Singapore in our own education systems. You know there's got to be a sense of playfulness and to have a sense of playfulness. You've got to be able to invite mistakes. You've got to be able to invite error. You've got to be the arbiter and to do that you've got to be bold. Now go back to the Mensa thing. We've got kids who are in Mensa high IQs and because they're valued on being smart all she's smart he's smart.

00:24:01:12 - 00:24:48:14
Glen: The teacher says oh she's smart he's smart. Mum and Dad say she's smart he's smart. The child takes pride in being smart. So what will I not want to do. They will not want to not appear as if they're smart they will not challenge themself with anything. What they're going to make up for over make mistakes. Be errical. And we would know that a lot of the a lot of the science that we've developed has come from errors and playfulness and observation of all we didn't expect that what happened there. I wasn't thinking to do that. And so we're not trying to eliminate all errors. We're trying to initially be playful with them and invite them and respond to them in a certain way and then be able to bring in that analytical logical to go back. How can we make this site. How can we pass the test now

00:24:49:11 - 00:25:00:05
Paul: And it is clearly the thing that many of us are resisting the creative urge if you like and pushing it back for fear of making mistakes.

00:25:00:07 - 00:27:25:12
Glen: Indeed and sometimes that like you know it's got to be a bit scary I remember you know I taught for a couple of years and then I went travelling for three months and seven years later I came home and travelling was a leap. You know it's a late travel it's never easy. It disrupts your life but you invite disruption into your life. So as part of my travels I ended up learning Hebrew on a kibbutz in the north of Israel. I spent pretty well a year there and then was back for a few months. Several years later I was back there last year to visit my friends and one of my friends Ginia Landau one of the world's leading geophysicists an amazing man just won a lifetime memorial for his services in physics but very tall Russian basketball playing Ukrainian born man. And we end up in a in a hut on a kibbutz learning Hebrew together. Turns out that he's read every Herrmon Hesse book and I've read every Herrmon Hesse book so he read it in Russian. I read that in English but somehow we found common language. And one day he says to me Glenn you must remember ПЕРВЫЙ БЛИН and I said Jan I'll remember that for the rest of my ПЕРВЫЙ БЛИН what's it mean. And he says it means the first pancake is always lumpy, When you're giving anything a shot you're going to stuff it up and yo've got to actually love the lumpy pancakes she got to invite the lumpy pancakes and too often we see people trying to be perfect instantly or be good or great instantly but if you're going to make the pancakes they're going to be lumpy the first ones and then you'll learn from that. And then like you might burn a few later on but it's how you leap into those lumpy pancakes. So organisation wise corporate wise it's what's your what's your attitude around mistakes. Do you say old mistakes are part of creativity. But as soon as somebody makes one you absolutely clamp down. And then therefore everyone else realises now we're not going to be bold here. We're just going to follow the script. There's no chance to be bold because when you'll be bold when you take the leaps that you talk about you're going to stuff up a few times going to have some fun falls. But boy it might take you to a whole different way of seeing the world.

00:27:25:14 - 00:29:10:24
Paul: I'm sure you even candidate as I have so many I mean particularly in a middle management world of people who are afraid to make decisions people who are just absolutely stymied by the idea of making a decision for fear of making mistakes. So if I don't actually decide anything then I can't be wrong. So I mean we're not even tapping into creativity. It's just even decision making is being impacted by people's fear of mistake making So how do we encourage people how do we create an environment for for our people in our businesses for our teams to feel safe to encourage it. But at the same time understand we're running a business we want it to be profitable so we're not trying to you know we can't be constantly making errors and nothing gets done nothing gets out and the customers are let down. But how do we how do we find this balance. Because creativity is such an important part of advancing ourselves and improving. I mean I talk about it from developing a brand voice for a business. I think the first decision. Every business has to make is do I want to be a cover artist or do I want to be an original artist. If I'm being a cover artist I'm just copying what everyone else has done. Everything's been laid out for me and I'm following the map and I'll do that and I can make it living like that but I'm not creating anything I'm just entertaining people with other people's music. But to be the original artist and I have to take chances to create I have to find my own voice. I have to find an audience for that. It's a different journey. So I think you know once in business decided to run and build a business then I decide I want to be an original artist rather than be a cover artist. So how do I how do I foster that and develop that in my people and create a business where creativity and innovation are part of who we are.

00:29:11:03 - 00:31:08:10
Glen: Yeah wonderful. I heard Adele the wonderful singer songwriter being interviewed and you know what impressed me with her as it does with a lot of the the new musos is or newish musos is they know their history you know they listen to Ella Fitzgerald they listen to everyone they listen to them they learn from them and they didn't try to be them so that you know we we need to know the craft of the folk of your speaker then look at some of the great speakers but just don't go on stage and be them you be the best you can be. And that's what I love about Adele and people like that they learn and then they take that learning to Okay what can I do with this. That will be my unique contribution. So it's an interesting thing with businesses too because if you are only going to play the copy game everyone else will be playing the copy game and somebody out there is going to be able to do it cheaper than what you can and you know Tom Friedman's work the world has become a flat world a fast world and a flat world. But if you've got something that is is unique then it's more difficult to be able to copy so and nobody can be you or tell your your story. So I think within the organisations it's first of all recognise and not only to promote but you can be an ideas person but you've got to have systems that will back that up and support that. For example we are presenting in Japan and it was notorious and try to do any creativity and innovation Japan that nobody would say anything until the boss in the room would speak and then everyone would go all of that is just so wise that it's just that's exactly been articulated perfectly what I think.

00:31:08:24 - 00:32:52:01
Glen: But there was one group and they didn't have that. They were Japanese and they just really argy bargy talk things through put forward ideas. And I I spent time with the CEO Japanese chap who as a lot of them and I spent some time doing a master's degree in America and came back. But he he said it took time to be able to create the environment where people had the confidence that they weren't gonna be in trouble for arguing talking throwing in ideas and one of the things he did is listen you know in my language we do a rock throwing to the future. You skim a rock into the future and you go okay. Before we talk about how magnificent this thing is that we've developed here and how wonderful it's gonna be and how many sales we're going to make we're going to do a rock star in the future and I need you to spend a couple of minutes alone and then we're going to be in pairs. Where could this go wrong where could this stuff up. You know what could be something that could undo this very very quickly. Now what that is and some people say that it's negative thinking but to do a rock throw into the future in a pessimistic way is actually quite smart. Because if you can go like buy a piece you know they send in some ships and Cuba and and nobody had figured out what if it goes wrong. What if what if this doesn't happen. If they've done they what are you thinking in a negative way that could have perhaps been a lot smarter in how they went about bay of pigs or indeed in any product that we manufacture. But the system's errors. So you're actually inviting people to look in a negative way creatively. Where could this stop up. You know why it couldn't go wrong. Why might I go wrong.

00:32:52:07 - 00:33:57:01
Glen: And then to say oh if we did this and this then that might help us in the process. So by inviting people to actually look for era look for mistakes. Be as bold in their thinking and and encouraging that and acknowledging that and even rewarding it with the thumbs up and a good on you and a nod of the head and a smile. And people see there's no repercussion to that except positive. Then they become that sort of players in the game. Well I was talking saying this to a particular group and using examples and one chap said well you know we had a sales meeting and they go and I go. He's a sales figures that we're aiming at. Boom boom boom. And it was really high. And this chap said we'll hold on what if this thing that's happening in the world at the moment continues longer than what we think that's going to reduce our sales figure. And the guy leading the session said We don't need any negative thinkers here. How do you kill that. What could be a very creative rock throw into the future. If it does go along with what we think what could we do about it all. Well how can we overcome that.

00:34:18:09 - 00:35:47:12
Paul: You saw the queen movie that they brought out not so long ago. And you watch in the film the creative process. I think people may be often surprised that when you're in a band as I was creative process it is quite robust. You know you are bouncing backwards. If you continuously just knock everybody's idea or feedback or thought and say No it's you know this is perfect as it is. Then you end up with the best product. So we have to be open and flexible to hearing ideas and I love the idea of skimming a rock into the future and thinking about well what if it doesn't go as well as we have. What if this happens or that stage. I mean as we speak right now you know we've got a bushfire crisis going on throughout our whole country and so there are going to be businesses and people who are going to be impacted by that going forward. They're going to need to create some new ideas about how they're going to manage and move forward through this because it's going to have a big impact on a lot of people not only the people who tragically are in the fire front right now but moving forward. So we're going to need to use our creative brain and we're just about at time. Could talk to you all day about this stuff. But say in terms of wrapping this up putting a bit of a bow around it in it moving forward for people. Any last thoughts or ideas in terms of how we can continue to bring out the best of our own creativity and innovation and help do that with the people around us.

00:35:47:14 - 00:37:03:19
Glen: Well certainly say set the example yourself. So that is look at those many lands a smart choose a land that you haven't played with or in very much or haven't since childhood and give yourself a challenge. You know people taking up the violin aged 70 people taking up a new language Well it's hard when you you know it's easier for kids you know. But how do you go about that learn 200 new words in a language you've never spoken before and set the example of being somebody who will challenge himself. Now you're not doing that with a specific outcome in mind apart from broadening your brain and then sitting that exam and asking people in a room you know what can you play with the many lines of smart I'm amazed in corporate world how many hugely talented people are sitting next to each other that know nothing about each other I know nothing about those talents. If only I knew that I could have taught you you could help me with this look to do that yourself and look to do it in our children whether it's your own kids or people like myself we let me know I don't have children but we are able to influence kids in schools to play in the many lands smart and that way life will never ever be boring.

00:37:03:22 - 00:37:40:09
Paul: And Amen to that. Let's know work towards a life that's not boring one that really brings out the best of you. We're only here for a short time so I don't want people to be going to their graves with their music still inside them. So we want to do everything we can to draw it out. Mate as always a tremendous pleasure chatting to you. I know that many of the listeners to this program will probably want to know more about you how they can follow and learn from you even more so if people want to do that what's the best way for them to stay in contact with you all learn from me.

00:37:40:14 - 00:38:05:16
Glen: A simple e-mail is [email protected] glenncapelli.com is our website but on Facebook there's thinking caps which is my radio show that I ran for over a decade and and also my book but thinking caps on Facebook. Glenn Cappelli on LinkedIn and really welcome any conversations about this. The need for more creativity and innovation in life.

00:38:05:18 - 00:38:10:06
Paul: Good on you Cap really appreciate it I. You take care and have a fantastic 2020.

00:38:10:08 - 00:38:11:12
Glen: Good on you pal. Thank you.

00:38:11:18 - 00:39:51:10
Paul: So here's a question for you. How much time have you scheduled this week for creativity space just to allow you start to create new ideas to innovate. What it is that you're doing now. Peter Drucker once famously said that business only has two primary purposes. Marketing and innovation. Everything else details. It's about your capacity to continuously improve innovate around your marketing ideas range of strategies and I think a big part that Glen talked about was the ability to listen. We've got to listen to others we've got to listen to our customers. We really stopped paying attention to what it is that people want and leave space for ourselves to start creating something new something fresh something different rather than just continuously rattling along and hoping that things will be okay. So we need space and time to be creative and to tap into one of the many types of creativity that Glenn pointed out to us that we can explore. So maybe it's time to learn a new skill. Stretch yourself because I think it does start with you first showcasing your willingness to be creative and in creating the space and courage for others to do the same around you so that you can get the very best out of the people in your team and the best out of yourself. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Glen. I think it's always a good reminder for us that we are creative beings and we need to keep exploring and growing ourselves and that that will then be reflected in our businesses. So until next week I wish you all the very very best of success with your businesses. But much more importantly with your lives. Until then take care. Bye for now.